Burnt Orange Report

I'm not sure which is the biggest loon: Tommy Lee Jones for making that movie, the University for allowing it or Jefferson Harwell, though I think Mr. Harwell may have a slight edge.

Gays can live their lives any way they want to and enjoy all freedoms every American has, but should not have special rights.

Right, because special rights are reserved for straights...unless of course you are refering to the special right to be the most hate crime victimized minority per capita (See the release of the recent Hate Crime Statistics for 2003).

The acceptance of gays into the law will lead to a slippery slope effect of epic proportions. Then, what should keep a man and his dog from being able to share health care and benefits?

Somebody apparently didn't do their homework. The Human Rights Campaign just three months ago condemned three Fortune 500 comapnies for offering insurance for employees' pets but not their domestic partners. When Home Depot got wind of the story, it changed its policy to domestic partners the very next day and Sprint followed within a month.

Marriage is a religious and sacred, but most importantly it is a legal union between a man and a women.

Was. Just as it was a legal union between a man and a woman of the same race. Just as it was a legal union between a man and a woman of the same race and religious sect. Just as it was a union between a man and as many women as he wanted. Just as it was a legal transfer of property (a woman) between a man and the father, brother or close male relative of the woman.

Same-Sex marriage is a reality. It isn't going away and is coming sooner than later to a state near you. Deal with it.

Heh. Leave it to an 18-year-old boy to consider homosexuality a hobby - and to parrot some Republican boob who thinks that gay marriage will create a sudden run on Americans trying to wed their pets.

Sodomy...now there's a hobby. Nay, in a perfect world - an art form. Jeffy will come to appreciate the difference in a year or two, when he finds that special someone who will do anal. And the real beauty is, it's a hobby everyone can enjoy, regardless of sexual preference.

Homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is just too hard-wired to be a hobby. But let's cut him some slack, and suggest that he needs more than a few months out of his childhood home to wise up to reality.

As for the movie trailer - Keeeerist. I've been proud to be an alumna, and I display my diploma with pride. But these days, it's already open season on Texans outside of Texas, and this is just *not* gonna help matters at all.

Dear UT-Austin Administration: Please, for the love of Christ, take pity on your alumni. We'd like to keep whatever dignity we'll have left after this movie comes out. Promise not to do this again. Didn't UNT manage to keep their name off of Necessary Roughness? You can do it!

If you can't promise me that, send me a six-pack of Shiner Bock to drown my sorrows in.

Love, me.

Yeah, I'd email the kid, but I feel sorry for him more than anything. I think he just needs to get himself laid and actually meet a gay person. Then he might not turn out to be another Rick Santorum.

As for Man of the House. Looks retarded, but I have better things to get worked up silly over. I'm more ashamed that our regents and administration have supported GOP efforts in the legislature to raise our tuitions by cutting state money for higher education.

Well, the letter speaks for itself . . . me wonders though what the silly little freshmanphobe is doing at UT instead of A&M . . .

In the meantime, being one of only two surviving yellowdog liberals with an A&M degree, i personally thought the movie trailer was quite charming.

tony gallucci
hunt, tx

The funny thing about the letter is that well - I don't disagree with the title. Sex can be a hobby. But this kid confuses sexual intercourse and sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is an innate characteristic just like race, gender, blood type, etc.

After all, here's the definition of hobby:

hob·by. n. An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure.

Sexual intercourse qualifies, sexual orientation does not.

I'm just wondering if it takes a lot of effort to be that stupid. Byron's right about the obfuscation between sexual intercourse and sexual orientation, I just don't think it was deliberate on the part of young Jeffrey Harwell.

Whe you've been around the world as much as I have (I'm almost 22, so you know I'm wizened beyond all imagining) you tend to meet people that are different from you. I don't live in Austin, but many of my friends do. And many of them are either gay or lesbian who attend UT.

I imagine that Mr. Harwell will soon realize that homosexuality is not bird-watching or coin collecting. I t is not a lifestyle choice anymore thån me choosing to be straight is, I just am.

The sooner he learns this, the better able he will be to help people, not spew bigotry and GOP talking points.

Sexual orientation is an innate characteristic just like race, gender, blood type, etc

I thought that one of the big talking points for the homosexual crowd was that straight people should realize that gender is NOT an innate characteristic. Hence the inclusion of the 'T' in the GLBTA, or whatever the acronym is.

So what's the story there?

I am very sorry to say that I went to high school with Jefferson. Coming from Plano in Collin County, Jefferson can be expected to hold such idiotic beliefs. Jefferson was the founder of the Young Republicans at my high school, I believe. He will definitely try to do some running within the YCT or even SG. Keep this letter on the records somewhere. Hopefully with its power of idiocy, Jefferson can kiss his SG hopes good-bye.

I think this kid needs a hobby.

Chris... I almost figured I'd get some sort of reply from someone like you.

Some people are born with ambiguous gender identity and some people have ambiguous sexual orientation (either bisexual or unsure of their sexual orientation). I tend to agree with Kinsey that sexual orientation is a scale. I consider myself entirely homosexual, but I believe that some people fall somewhere in between. Gender to a much lesser extent falls on a scale as well. In general, it's much less ambiguous than sexual orientation. I consider myself 100% male. Gender Identity and sexual orientation are two different issues.

Having said all of that, that these things are on a scale, I still believe that these traits are innate -- determined either by birth or within the first years of life.

New meme: folks like this besotted freshman are no longer Christian conservatives.

They are people who choose the fundamentalist Christian life style.

Byron. I wasn't trying to start anything with you. =) Just scratching my head how you could have thrown gender in there. But since you're expecting it... =)

Your argument is kinda weak, IMO. If you want us to allow that gender is determined in the first few years of life, than it is certainly NOT an innate characteristic. Your blood type doesn't change in the first few years of life. Your race doesn't change in the first few years of life.

Kid's an overzealous goober who needs to learn a lot about this world. But he's 18 and indoctrinated. Maybe he'll learn.

oh yes, one more question.

Consider that while arguing for a "scale" of sexual orientation, how this viewpoint incredibly weakens the argument that sexual orientation is "innate"?

At best, a "scale" is more of an indication of bi-sexuality - "bi", indicating a dual nature - not an innate, fixed, orientation. Which I think is one of the unspoken agendas from the homosexual movement - do what's possible to accustom society to practicing bi-sexuals to help ease homosexuality onto the scene. Just look at the famed, "Kinsey".

Chris does not understand that gender is more than genitalia. There is certainly a psychiatric component to gender as well.

Some people, though rare, are born with the physical characteristics of one gender and the psychiatric identity of another. Such a person does not "chose" this fate but rather simply finds oneself in it.

If Chris feels gender, gender identity and sexual orientation are a matter of choice, perhaps he can tell us when he chose to be a male, or a heterosexual for that matter. I know I sure as hell can't.

Concerning the scale argument, Chris again makes an erronrous assumotion that "inateness" is synonymous with being at one end of a sexual orientation spectrum. There is nothing inconsistent with being "inately" bisexual. A perfect example is that some people, though quite few, really are perfectly ambidexterous. Such people are not all "inately" right handed and "chose" or "practiced" at being left handed as well.

Guys, this argument over innateness is pointless. If science invented a process by which a black could become white or vice versa would discrimination on the basis of race become permissible? Science already has a process by which a transgendered person can approximately become sex that matches their gender. Yet such persons are more likely to face discrimination than less.

A characteristic need not be innate to be a basis of a nondiscrimination policy. A person chooses their religion and political affiliation but government cannot discriminate on those bases.

As for the continuum or spectrum view of sexual orientation, I agree it does exist. WhoMe's point is quite valid that it could be said everyone in innately bisexual. We just all have varying degrees of homosexual and heterosexual attraction with most people being at the poles and the heterosexual pole being most dominant. None of that changes that fact that sexual orientation, whether it be a three hard category hetero-, homo-, or bi-sexual or a spectrum model, is not a legitimate basis to deny people equality under the law absent a narrowly tailored overwhelming government interest.

As for this guy being from Plano, why do all the nut cases come out of Plano now? My mom is from Plano back when it was a quaint little town and there was but one Plano High with 900 students grades 9-12. Now it is the megalopolis haven of right wing fanatical fundamentalist fascists like Florence "Eva Braun" Shapiro.

According to the Cambridge dictionary, innate is defined as "a quality or ability that you were born with, not one you have learned."

Therefore, Byron, I think that Chris was taking issue with your characterization of gender identity as "innate." If, as you said, some of it is learned "within the first years of life," then it cannot, by definition, be innate.

I tend to agree with you that "some people are born with ambiguous gender identity and some people have ambiguous sexual orientation (either bisexual or unsure of their sexual orientation)." In that case, if it is ambiguous, then it is shaped by their environment and life experiences, and therefore, sexual orientation and gender identity is not ALWAYS innate.

I never said anything about choosing your gender or sexual orientation. But thanks for playing. =)

Go look up the word "innate" in the dictionary. It comes from the Latin word "innatus" meaning "to be born in". Gender and race are more than physical characteristics. They are DNA, chemicals, hormones. Gender and race goes down to the very molecules that comprise our being. From birth. Innately.

And since WhoMe? brought it up... A "scale" of sexuality or a "scale" of someone's psychological view of their gender... Innate? No. But I'm open to hearing a rational discussion of how it qualifies.

All this is fascinating material for arguing the pro-life position if everybody on the left thinks that babies possess such cool INNATE properties. =)

Suddenly, Plano has become a 'right-wing megalopolis' because there are several dozen companies that are headquartered or maintain strong presences in the area, or immediately within Plano. Lots of these kids' parents are CEO-types. Being in the Bible belt and being rich breeds these kinds of kids. I'm happy to say I graduated from Plano Senior High, but I'm not one of them.

Mr. Harwell would do well to remember that dogs can't enter into legal contracts. I told him that when he finds a dog that is a full American citizen and can sign its own name, he should let me know.

Well I think that my use of the word "innate" confuses the issue a bit. Comparing blood type to sexual orientation and gender is a good comparison on the generality, but not technically. So Drew, I basically agree with your clarifications.

Most scientists who have studied sexual orientation believe that it is either an innate characteristic determined by birth, or is a determined in the early years of growing up. Once sexual orientation is determined I believe it to be unchangable. One can choose how they act on their sexual orientation, but the "gay", "straight", "bi" orientation cannot be changed in my opinion.

People also often confuse gender identity and gender expression with sexual orientation when in fact they are very different concepts. And of course there's two forms of gender identity. People who are born with ambiguous sexual characteristic, and people who are born as a boy or a girl.

You

Nice touch adding his email address. I used to love reading the firing lines back in my UT days.

I think it's kinda sweet that the young Plano boy has invoked a flaccid derivation of the natural law argument and has spawned a whole commenters sections on Transgenders. God Bless all of you, really, I mean it. It takes all the sting out of a hormonal kid's libidinal outburst of (hackneyed) opinion.

Chris needs to realize that there is nothing inconsistent about a characteristic being in the middle of a spectrum AND inate at the same time. Again, some people possess inante ambidextrousness - half-way between the dipoles of left and right handiness on the spectrum of dominant manual dexterity. Intelligence is a also spectrum - some are genious and some are just plain stupid, but most fall somewhere in between, yet ones basic IQ is more or less inate. In some of his first experiments on heredity, Gregor Mendelson discovered that some flowers have genes (genes are as inate as inate can be) for color that indicate "red" or "white," but that some flowers with mixed chromosones are actually pink, indicating an individual flower (with "inate" genes) that is "midway" on the color spectrum.

Apart from examples of specific traits, there is no logic to the argument that only the dipoles of a spectrum can be inate traits. Does a hermaphrodite (midway physically betwen male and female) "choose" to have mixed genitalia, or is it inate? The question is so absurd that the answer is obvious.

This is what is wrong with you people. You say that the University of Texas is open to opinions which is evident by the freaks you guys let in. If this is what you guys do all day is sit around and see how you can pick on people for letting out their own opinions that is great and you guys must have a hell of a life and I am glad then that I do not attend the University of Texas. Personally I believe Jefferson was very nice to the "people" if you want to call them that. I was raised on the bible and by God's words marriage is between a MAN and a WOMAN not a man and another man. Another thing, just because Jeff is from Plano means nothing. Collin County is the biggest republican county in the state of Texas and better yet this is the biggest republican state in the nation. So everyone who does not like to hear republican views can look at moving to San Fransico or New York and try out for broadway. Also this country was founded on principles based on the Bible, I do not see a day when people already going to hell will change a government to where they will be able to marry any time soon. So since my buddy Jeff is getting a lot of great e-mail and since everyone who reads this has no lives I am sure you will have plenty of time to write me. My email address is TexanCowboy3425@comcast.net I plan on hearing back from a lot of you while you are watching RENT or something maybe you can tell me how that is.

Great friend of Jefferson Harwell,
Ryan W.

methinks someone has a bit of an issue with homo-secht-u-whals, though wouldn't Alaska be the biggest Republican State in the country in terms of land area? and Texas isn't the most Republican in terms of percentage. and actually, there were more Bush votes cast in California than Texas. Plus there are some 90% plus Republican counties in the panhandle.

But it is nice to see that we almost qualify as 'people' for you. Great strides we are making apparently.

Speaking as a straight dude myself, I don't see how you gays... uh, GUYS... put up with this kind of Jefferson / Ryan crap day after day. They are real embarrassments to those of us who choose to live a monogamous hetero lifestyle. Sheesh.

Ryan W. sez: "Personally I believe Jefferson was very nice to the "people" if you want to call them that."

Yes, that's it. They're not really people. Not quite human. If only we could do something to these not-quite-humans. Put them in camps, maybe? Kill them all, certainly.

Burn in hell, nazi.

Eh, his letter is annoying, but 18-year-olds like Jefferson and his good friend Ryan W. have been spouting ignorant opinions with the confidence of the ages since universities first began. I suspect that he's going to find his beliefs challenged a lot more than he ever anticipated now that's he's gone public with them, and may have to actually devote some individual thought to his worldview for the first time.

When I was a college freshman ten years ago, I thought I had all the answers on why the War on Drugs was a good thing. I learned. So will Jefferson Harwell, if he keeps his mind open and engages other students at that wonderful academic community he has chosen for his education.

If he's still an arrogant ass after three or four years at UT, then he'll be a lost cause.

Ryan, while you're here, can you confirm that Jefferson Harwell is a virgin? It would go a long way toward giving him credibility on what he writes.

I personally have not met a homophobe that didn't smell a little queer to me. It is quite apparent that Ryan is in love with Jefferson.

As a woman, I have yet to meet a straight guy (christian or not) who is comfortable with his own sexuality that hates gays so much. It is simply the one that hates his own homosexuality so much that he must attack those who feel free to live open.

Ryan and Jefferson need to get a room.

note: has anyone, red or blue states, met a guy named Jefferson that was straight?

I am glad to see Ryan W. stand up for Jefferson. Of all the people that attend UT, I am relieved to see someone stand up for what they believe. I would also like to address the issue of homosexuality being something you are born with. Just because the Liberal media puts this idea in the heads of americans does not make it true. the fact is that homosexuality is a club. why do u think homosexuality has exploded over the last 10 years? answer: real world, road rules, will and grace, queer eye for the straight guy, friends, E.R. all glorifying gays. Its no wonder u simple minded fools have accepted gays as part of our world. u people eat up everything the liberal media tells u. being gay is not a lifestyle. homosexuals are people with low self esteem that want to fit into a group. i do not have a problem with homosexuals but this is true. its the same as people who wear all black clothes and black eye shadow, they are just looking to fit in. Thank u jeff for expressing the opinion of the majority of america. and those of you who will dispute the fact that this is the majority of americans opinion. ask yourselves why does gay marriage continue to be shot down across the country?

Dear Stephen Meserve
You are just pissed off because you were a nerd in high school and had no friends besides the math club. You act so cocky because you think someday you will have some great high paying job because you can add and subtract numbers really well. The truth Stephen is that you will be working a low paying job behind a computer in the basement of my company. You lack something called people skills. Oh and just to address the people saying that Jefferson does not get laid, I know jefferson and he gets laid on a weekly basis by very good looking women, and stephen... well he doesnt do real well in social situations.

To answer Frankie, there was a President of the United States named W. Jefferson Clinton that was most assuredly straight. I think that there is more than one woman in Aashington, DC who will attest to that, lol!
And to those who don't think my attaction to men is fixed, I suppose your attraction to women is a passing phase that you got by watching too many episodes of Friends or Baywatch? Why can't people just accept that there always have been and always will be a small segment of the population tht is different than themselves and go on withtheir lives? And maybe the heterosexual males should count their blessings that those of us who are gay aren't out there competing for your women's attention.

steven is gay dude and he is just jealous because he had fat band chicks to screw around with and he is jealous of the chicks a i got in high school cause they were hott. ryan w is drunki as shit but i still know that steven is gay and fucking jealouse

The answer to zizzle's question "...why does gay marriage continue to be shot down across the country?" is simple. People fear that which they do not understand. Human beings don't understand their own sexual desires. Gay or straight we don't know why we get turned on. When homosexuality is mentioned all thoughts turn to sex. It gets us thinking about what goes on in our own bedrooms. That scares people.

As a gay man who served in the military for 20 years and subsequently retired honorably, it disturbs me that one of the stereotypes associated with homosexuality is a preoccupation with sex. For example: If I were to have somehow saved the free world for democracy, and in the midst of receiving the Congressional Medal of Honor for my deeds, said, "I am gay", the military establishment and every homophobe in America would see nothing about the person I am except for the person with whom I have sex. So, you tell me - who has the preoccupation with sex???

Well, Ryan and Jefferson, I'm sorry that you haven't grown out of you high school ways. I don't think that this is the proper forum to make any insults about me, whether founded or not. I'd like to comment that I wasn't in the math club and I'm not a computer science major. Just because people have different opinions, there is no reason to make personal attacks on their character. It does say something about your social skills and confidencethat you hide behind the veil of a fake email address and screenname.

Please don't make unfounded commentary against people about whom you know very little.

Shut the hell up and leave Jefferson alone. You're fighting a useless battle. He has his opinion and you have yours. You don't need to purposely insult him because of it, as he never tried to purposely insult anyone. I think its pretty lame that you guys have to break everyone down just to make yourself feel better. He was writing his opinion, which you're not going to change, so you don't have to belittle him. Some could say the same insults about YOU for your beliefs. Oh, and by the way- Stephen M. WAS and IS a nerd who I'm sure hasn't had sex with a woman EVER. Jefferson has always been an intelligent, likeable guy with strong convictions and he should NOT be insulted for that. You people disgust me.