Comments: The Houston Chronicle Sells Out

A not so wild guess ... the Chron places a high value on incumbancy.

Posted by Greg Wythe at March 3, 2004 06:03 PM

Do the folks at BOR support ANY minority candidates?

Al Green shouldn't represent a majority minority district. Leticia Hinojosa shouldn't represent a heavily Hispanic district. Gene Green gets a pass in a new minority district (drawn for a Hispanic candidate more than a decade ago). And Ron Wilson, who was on the front lines fighting for African-American rights with Mickey Leland 30 years ago and has kept the struggle alive, is vilified on BOR because he wanted another black opportunity district in his hometown.

Should we should eliminate one-man, one-vote and the Voting Rights Act and allow white Democrats to represent minority communities, since BOR obviously thinks that brown and black folks can't represent their communities as well as rich white liberal men?

Posted by notgonnatell at March 3, 2004 06:46 PM

The last time I checked... Alma Allen was Black..

Posted by Byron L at March 3, 2004 06:52 PM

Lol. It's always funny when blowhards who don't read enough get embarrassed like that. What an ass.

Posted by UTstudent at March 3, 2004 07:29 PM

Of course Dr.Allen is African-American. But the point remains: she was not part of the Mickey Leland-El Franco Lee-Barbara Jordan-Craig Washington machine that brought meaningful civil and political rights to African-Americans in Harris County.

She did not author the law that created a state holiday for Dr. Martin Luther King's birthday. She did not lead the fight for a pharmacy and law school at TSU. She did not spearhead the first affirmative action program for state contracts. She has publicly opposed increased African-American representation in Congress.

Some white boys at UT obviously consider themselves authorities on black political progess in Houston. But Harold Dutton, Sylvester Turner, El Franco Lee, Al Green, etc. were on the streets fighting for the African-American rights before most of the UT bloggers were born (and before Garnet Coleman, who was born wealthy, was born). The civil rights leaders in Houston support Ways and Means Chairman Ron Wilson for re-election, because he fought with them.

As for the "blowhard" and "don't read enough" comments -- I don't have to read about it; I was there long before UTstudent was a gleam in his daddy's eye. Perhaps he should read a little about the civil rights movement in this state.

Posted by notgonnatell at March 3, 2004 08:07 PM

I notice that the BOR site also links to the UDems, who endorsed business lobbyist Celia Isreal against the incumbent, longtime civil rights and environmental activist Ron Davis, an African-American. Wwhat do UT Dems have against black folks?

Posted by notgonnatell at March 3, 2004 08:52 PM

All I know is that thanks to redistricting, I am stuck with Lamar Smith and that sucks. The Barrientos-Hinojosa endorsement was like a punch in the stomach.

Posted by AustinGirl172 at March 3, 2004 09:43 PM


We need to get beyond the fallacy that only blacks can represent blacks, onlt latinos can represent latinos, and only whites can represent whites.

The issue is not the color of the candidate's skin, but whether the candidate espouses policies that benefit those values that we as Democrats cherish.

When a Ron Wilson sells out for a few talents of silver, he has done the entire State of Texas, including the black community a great deal of harm. In Dallas, Helen Giddings did likewise. In Corpus Christi, Jaime Capello and Vilma Luna also sold out to the values that make our Party great.

These members turned their back on injured Texans and protected malfeasant corporations and insurance companies with HB4. They turned their back on hundreds of thousands of indigent Texans by contracting Medicaid eligibility (expecially for children - how despicable). People will literally DIE because of the Medicaid issue. These members turned their back on students by supporting the deregulation of tuition, thereby pricing the cost of higher education out of the range of working Texans. In sum, they talk the talk in their Districts and then go to Austin and get in bed with Tom Craddick and vote like Republicans.

With votes like the foregoing, it is time to purge the House of Democrats that vote like Republicans, and these members should not get a free ride because of the color of their skin.

Shame on you for being duped into thinking that any of these folks are acting in the best interests of Texas or their communities.

Posted by WhoMe? at March 3, 2004 10:29 PM

Ron Wilson errr notgonnatell, what do you have against white folks?

Congrats to BOR for pissing of Ron Wilson so bad that he had to come and post. :)

Posted by Tek_XX at March 3, 2004 10:32 PM

Who the hell do you think you are to accuse us of being racist because we have the notion that Austin should have its own congressman? Ok, we support Alma Allen instead of Ron Wilson, because maybe we're a little pissed that some Democrats thought it was ok to split up Austin; they thought it'd be ok to give Republicans more of a lock on the House than they do. If you've been paying attention to House Republicans for the past 10 years, you know they don't give a fuck about minorities, rich white liberals, or UT bloggers.
Alright, so we support a black lady over a black man who fought with the Civil Rights movement, then you tell us we're ignorant about those particulars in Houston (it's true, I am in that regard.) But if you think we don't know about that, that all we know is black lady vs. black man, how's that racist?
And hey, being from Houston I doubt you've lived in all the parts of the Doggett-Hinojosa district, so do you have a fuckin' clue how poor we are in the Valley? That maybe we'd rather have someone whos' been in Congress for a decade, who's on the Ways and Means Committee? (You're right that Wilson being on the Ways and Means Committees for Texas is good; wouldn't the same apply for the U.S. House?) The majority of the Valley's politicians agree with me and want some change more than they wanna cycle through with the same old bullshit.
And don't lecture me about supporting the rich folk. Most people like me who grow up poor know that money, one way or the other, isn't the best judge of character.
P.S. I'm with you on Davis.

Posted by UTstudent at March 3, 2004 10:43 PM

Though I like Israel too.

Posted by UTstudent at March 3, 2004 10:47 PM

Boy, where do I start?

AustinGirl 172 says she has a tummy ache because former farmworker Senator Gonzalo Barrientos endorsed Judge Leticia Hinojos. If she explained her stomach problems, I could respond.

WhoMe make a good point about only a person of a certain race being able to effectively represent people of other races. As time goes on, I hope that race is diminished in politics.

But WhoMe is factually wrong about tort reform. Ron Wilson voted Against HB 4 and the related Constitutional amendment. Vilma Luna voted AGAINST HB 4 and the related Constitutional amendment. Capello did vote for it, and Representative Luna and her law firm have formed a PAC to beat Chairman Capello because of that vote. Chairwoman Giddings, well, I have to check and post. But WhoMe is at least 50 percent factually wrong.

UTstudent makes a racial tirade, then goes on to try to equate Doggett's position as a minority member of the U.S. House's Ways and Means Committee to Wilson's CHAIRMANSHIP of the Texas House and Ways Committee. Not even a close call there.

He later posts about my not knowing about the new CD. I know that is is 68 percent Hispanic and was drawn to increase Mexican-American strength in Congress. Let's let voters fight it out. If Doggett can win, then more power to him. But it denies the Valley the second Congressional seat tha they deserve.

Finally, Tex XX implied that I am Ron Wilson. Unfortunately, I have not risen to that level. Moreover, I doubt that Chairman Wilson can use a computer.

Posted by notgonnatell at March 3, 2004 11:42 PM


Representative Helen Giddings was one of 34 House members to vote AGAINST HB 4 on final passage. So
WhoMe is 75 percent factually wrong in his criticism of House Democratic members on tort reform.

Posted by notgonnatell at March 3, 2004 11:49 PM

"But it denies the Valley the second Congressional seat tha they deserve."

Idiot. The Valley deserves two seats and Austin deserves NONE???

And drawn to increase Hispanic representation in Congress??? Yeah, I'm SURE that's what DeLay was thinking.

Let me explain for you, in simple terms: Barrientos does not represent the Valley. He represents Austin. He is working for the interests of the Valley and against the interests of the city he purports to represent.

We have a simple word in English for this activity:


Posted by Blue at March 3, 2004 11:57 PM

"AustinGirl 172 says she has a tummy ache because former farmworker Senator Gonzalo Barrientos endorsed Judge Leticia Hinojos."

And I suppose the members of the United Farm Workers are just a bunch of rich limousine liberals? (I brought that up 'cause they thought Doggett was a better candidate.) And the Valley politicians too I guess.

"UTstudent makes a racial tirade"
Me? I'm puzzled that you'd think calling strangers over a blog racist is reasoned discourse, but saying "no we're not" is a racial tirade.

"tr[ies] to equate Doggett's position as a minority member of the U.S. House's Ways and Means Committee to Wilson's CHAIRMANSHIP of the Texas House and Ways Committee. Not even a close call there."

Did you hear about the $200 million Doggett got last week to clean up East Austin? U.S. House vs. Texas House? You're right. That isn't a close call. (TX House chair is nothing to sniff at though.)

"I know that is is 68 percent Hispanic."
I could've looked up Houston's demographics too. But that's not knowing Houston.

"But it denies the Valley the second Congressional seat tha they deserve."
I'm not against the Valley having two seats. We used to have two guaranteed seats before redistricting. But I am against Austin having 0 seats. Do you think we deserve maybe one?

"Let's let voters fight it out. If Doggett can win, then more power to him."
That's a reassuring change of position. We're the voters and we're fighting it out.

Posted by UTstudent at March 4, 2004 12:12 AM

Blue demonstrates great political insight.

Austin has had two members of Congress for a decade. Now we have three.

The "IDIOT" comment also added a lot to thoughtful political discouse.

As for Senator Barrientos, take your gripes to him. I don't have a dog in that hunt. I have simply posted verified facts and some analysis based on 20 years of political experience. If I made a mistake, please tell me and I will correct it. If not, settle down.

Posted by notgonnatell at March 4, 2004 12:17 AM

"Austin has had two members of Congress for a decade. Now we have three."
If a vase shatters you don't have a thousand vases. (Meaning: none of our "three Congressman" would actually be from Austin.)

Posted by UTstudent at March 4, 2004 12:25 AM

Ah, yes, Lamar Smith. Well known Austinite.

If you had "twenty years of political experience" you wouldn't make such a silly statement. And you certainly wouldn't mention Wilson in the same breath as Barbara Jordon.

Posted by Blue at March 4, 2004 12:45 AM

Let me take UTstudent's tirade's one-by-one:

1) Yes,I consider Rebecca Flores Harrington and husband Jim Harrington limo libs. I also think they are good people, just about 20 years behind the times.

2) I never said or implied that UTstudent was a racist and don't believe it to be true. If he or she inferred that, I apologize. Please read my post and come to your own conclusion.

3) If anyone can show me a congressional document, or news article in Roll Call, The Hill, National Journal, Statesmen, etc. that shows Doggett got a $200 million appropriation to clean up East Austin, I will make a personal contribution of $200 to BOR. Prove it! I don't believe it happened.

4) I have no idea why he made the Houston reference. I live in Austin and have for about 20 years. Is there a point here?

5)Look at my previous post. Austin will have three Congressional represntative, instead of the current two. Again, what is your point?

6) You seem to congratulate me on supporting democracy. What have I done to suggest that I don't? Anyway, thanks for the praise.

Posted by notgonnatell at March 4, 2004 12:47 AM

A little poetic license of Byron's posting to poke fun and illustrate the double-nature of attacking within your own party. John Kerry voted to send American troops to war in Iraq. He defends his actions. He needs to go. Donate to Al Sharpton today.

Posted by Chris at March 4, 2004 12:56 AM

This is really getting wild.

UTstudent complains about the new three Congressmen who will represent Travis County, then surmises that no person from Travis County will win any of those seats. I think Doggett, McCaul and Smith will win, giving Austin three seats in the U.S. House. (I will also acknowledge that it is possible that Hinojosa, Streauband(sp) and Smith will win, giving Travis County no home grown Congressman.)

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me on analysis. But Blue is out of line. Barbara Jordan was a good friend of mine, and she was a huge proponent of Ron Wilson. Congresswoman Jordan, Chairman Wilson and about a half dozen others (yes me) went on a camping trip in 1987, and I can assure you that Ms. Jordan and Mr. Wilson were more than friends -- Ron idolized her.

Posted by notgonnatell at March 4, 2004 01:09 AM

back to you:
1)Don't know the Harringtons. I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to, but I was saying limousine liberals and non-limousine liberals alike both support Doggett.

2)"since BOR obviously thinks that brown and black folks can't represent their communities as well as rich white liberal men?"
"Wwhat do UT Dems have against black folks?"
I'm a UT Dem and consider myself a member of BOR. I don't think I'm the only one here who was offended. But I accept your apology.
3) Oh shit! did I ever get my facts wrong on that one. I could've thought that one through. It's $2 mil. Still an impressive sum of money. Hopefully you'll still donate $2 to BOR.
4) I figured you were from Houston so I understand your confusion. But the point stands. During my "racial tirade" I accused you of not knowing the Valley. You responded by saying the Valley's 68% Hispanic. The point of the response was that listing the demographics of an area does not constitute "knowing" an area.
5)The point was pretty clear. Austin will be divided into 3 districts, with each Rep representing a fraction from Austin. As a result, if Doggett loses none of the Reps will be from Austin nor will they represent Austin as the major base of their district.
6)It was a backhanded compliment but you're welcome in any case. In your earlier post you seemed to imply a vote for Doggett was somehow illegitimate(based on racism, denying the Valley of the vote, whatnot.) Then you seemed to change tones,saying let the voters decide and the more power to Doggett if he wins.

Posted by UTstudent at March 4, 2004 01:14 AM

I guess you're right about McCaul if he does live in Austin. But I think you'll agree with me that a Conservative Republican, if he wins office, will not have won as a result of Austin voters expressing their will. I'm guessing it's another gerrymandered district with a sliver of Austin. Isn't Smith from San Antonio?

Posted by UTstudent at March 4, 2004 01:40 AM

All of you, just shut up. ARGHH!

Posted by Karl-T at March 4, 2004 01:44 AM

ok fine.

Posted by UTstudent at March 4, 2004 01:50 AM

1) If you don't know them, then you are not a Democratic activist and have not been involved in politics. Especially not in Austin. (By the way, I think they are pretty good folks.)

2)Please don't accept my apology, because it was not offered -- at least in the spirit you allege. I want race out of politcs, but we are not there yet, and yes, putting minorities in leadership roles is still important.

3)You attack me personally and then want me to disregard you $198 million error??!!?? When you find that I make a factual mistake, then I will contribute. How could you be so irresponsible?

4)Do you ever read what I write? The new CD 25 is 68 percent Hispanic. I never wrote anything about the Valley numbers. Take your "racial tirade" elsewhere until you can read or understand Census tracts.

5) I have no idea what you are saying. Three Congressmen will ignore Travis County? I doubt that.

6)Again, I am at a lost for a response. I think each vote counts equally, that voters can select their favorite candidate, that anyone elected should be held acccountable ... what the hell is your point?

Posted by notgonnatell at March 4, 2004 02:05 AM

Once again, in small doses:

1) Austin will NOT have a majority of the voting population.

2) Austin will be "represented" by two radical Republicans (Smith and whoever wins the 10th). I'm SURE the winner of the 10th will devote all the care that Smith does to Austin (snort).

3) Austin has one (1) chance to have a representative that will look out for us as a city: Doggett. Without Doggett we will have NO effective rep, since Hinojosa has made utterly clear her agenda is to serve the Valley and Hispanics.

You are either lying or deluded if you think this somehow amounts to "three congressmen" for Austin.

As far as your camping trip story...yeah, you're a regular Civil Rights Hero (tm) aren't you? I'm SURE Jordan would have supported a Republican like Wilson.

Posted by Blue at March 4, 2004 02:36 AM

Did Barbara Jordan have a British accent on her camping trips too? =)

Posted by Chris at March 4, 2004 09:41 AM

I'm sure Jordan would have focused a heck of a lot of energy on responding to blogs, too.

The point I was making (half-heartedly) last night concerning Doggett and Hinojosa was that even tho I am a Mexican-American woman, I still feel that Doggett is the go to guy. I could base that on senority alone (altho a list of his voting record would make any liberal happy). The "punch in the stomach" phrase was metaphorical. Barrientos is a damn hypocrite.

Is it important to have minority representation? No doubt. But, we don't always get what we want... a la Ron Kirk.

I should however, get the man I voted for and not have to move across the street to vote for the guy.

Posted by AustinGirl172 at March 4, 2004 09:53 AM

This will be my last post, since not one person has refuted a single FACT I made, although I have been called a liar, a blowhard, ignorant, etc.

I will leave it at this: AustinGirl172 thinks Senator Barrientos should be required to endorse Doggest because Gonzalo represents Austin. By that logic, Ron Wilson should support a new African-American district in HIS city.

Posted by notgonnatell at March 4, 2004 03:39 PM

Logic obviously not a strong point for you, eh notgonnatell!

We HAVE refuted your "facts." We have also, justly, mocked your opinion.

Posted by Blue at March 4, 2004 03:53 PM

Barrientos left the state to protect the incumbants, however that turned out to be a lie, hence he is a hypocrite.

Posted by AustinGirl172 at March 4, 2004 06:44 PM

Can blue (or anyone else) cite one factual error in any of my postings?

Also, what does this statement from AustinGirl127 mean: 'Barrientos left the state to protect the incumbants(sic), however that turned out to be a lie, hence he is a hypocrite."

What is the lie? What is the hypocracy? And maybe more importantly, why should the Senator lift a finger to help Congressman Doggett after the Congressman shafted the Senator in such an mean-spirited, undignified way in 1993?

Also, what do British accents have to do with anything? And why is liberal Democratic State Representative labeled a Republican?

Finally, does blue know the difference between what he calls voting population and registered voters, voting age population or aggregated voting strength? If I were to run for office, I would covet voters more than warm bodies.

I doubt most BOR posters care about any of this anyway. This is supposed to be a Ron Wilson thread, not a Doggett thread.

Posted by notgonnatell at March 5, 2004 12:02 AM

Factual error:

Lamar Smith is an Austin representative. He lives in San Antonio.

The idea that someone like yourself tries to pass him/herself off as knowledgeable while buying DeLay's line that having representatives in Houston, McAllen, and San Antonio as the only representatives for a city of 500K is, frankly, laughable.

Barrientos could have witheld support for Doggett without screwing his constituents by endorsing Hinojosa. The fact he places his petty feud with Doggett over the interests of the people he is supposed to represent is enough to demonstrate he is unfit to serve.

Posted by blue at March 5, 2004 12:28 AM


Camping trip.......

with Barbara Jordan......

and Ron Wilson......

in 1987........

Barbara jordan......



yea i can see that.

Posted by Tek_XX at March 5, 2004 01:03 AM

If you would like to verify the Big Bend trip, please call Charlie Schnabel, the Hon. Charles Wilson, the Hon. Chet Brooks, the Hon. Ron Wilson or Triena, who is now his wife, Mark McKinnon, the Hon. Russ Tidwell, the Hon. Babe Schwartz, Gus Gurrando, the Rev. Al Edwards -- I can't remember any more living folks, but I will look for any photos I might have. I know the Hon. Larry Evans(deceased), the Hon. Bob Eckhardt (deceased), the Hon. Oscar Mauzy (deceased) and Sam Attlesy (deceased) were on the trip. I want to say that Ed Martin, Mary Beth Rogers, Sissy Farenthal (sp) and Sam Kinch were there, but my memory is not positive (we did have a few belts, and the Hon. Ms. Jordon could drink any UT kid under the table and still tell a great story and sing a wonderful song while doing so._

Posted by notgonatell at March 5, 2004 01:49 AM

To blue:

1) I never said Congressman Smith is from Austin, although he has represented more of Travis County (geographically) than Congressman Doggett for several years now. He owns a small townhouse in San Antonio that also serves as his campaign HQ ( a source of an ethics investigation, by the way), and his wealthy family has a VERY large ranching operation outside of San Antonio that is his real home when he ever comes to Texas.

2) I happen to be knowledgable about Texas politics and I thought mid-decade redistricting was a terrible idea. I have little regard for Majority Leader DeLay and he doesn't like me much either.

3)Senator Barrientos' beef with Congressman Doggett is not "petty." I remember the day that Senator Barrientos made his speech in the Clements' Building (the Senate was being renovated and the Senate met in the Clements' building that session) on a Monday after then-Justice Doggett pulled his "Sunday Suprise" the day before. The Democratic/progressive community was split on who should run, but was fairly unified in beliving that then-County Commissioner and later Mayor Bruce Todd and a handful of others had not kept their end of the bargain. Lloyd Doggett broke his word; that is the basis of what you call a "petty feud."

3)All of this has happened within the past decade or two. Since you think I don't know anything about state government or politics, can you give me an idea of your short-term historical perspective?

Do you know that Tom DeLay was the lightest of lightweights in the Texas House when he was here? Do you know that Lloyd Doggett was probably the most dislliked Senator in the Capitol during his tenure there?

You must be interested in politics and seem sincere. If you want to learn about the process, I would be happy to direct you to various sources that could enlighten you. But please, don't be angry. Be informed. Information is power in politics.

Posted by notgonnaltell at March 5, 2004 02:22 AM
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