Burnt Orange Report

Agree with your basic thesis on the statute of limitations, but need to add the following:

* Witness testimony that far back is absolutely unreliable. Jean Piaget, arguably the father of modern child psychology, for example described his own false memory, of an attempted kidnapping when he was about 3. It was created by his governess, who was worried about her job, and came up with the story to make herself less likely to be fired. When one is under the car of a psychologist using techniques like hypnosis, it's even worse.
* Political reality. If you believe that cases that old are based upon memories that are likely manufactured, you want to keep it bottled up in committee. Otherwise, it's cast as a "pro child abuse" case.

The data on "repressed memories" is such that I'm not sure that they should even be admissible, particularly not when it is more than 10 years (age 28) ago.

I disagree totally with the synopsis of Jim Dallas and the post by Matthew Saroff in regards to HB838. At the age of 10, I was sexually assaulted and had pornographic pictures taken of me. I did my best to overcome the abuse and I survived. When my oldest child was about the age I was at my abuse, I began to wonder what happened to Mark Turner. In July 2004 I found him locked in a Texas Prison (TDC 606569). For 2 months I researched his life. Texas Prison - 1971. Kansas Prison - 1983. California Prison - 1990. Texas Prison - 1991. All of his convictions are related to child assault, child molestation, prostitution. Now are you ready for this? - Texas will mandatory release Turner on July 3, 2006. I can do nothing to stop him. For 24 years, I have kept my plane tickets. For 24 years, I have kept a scrap book that he inscribed, "Love ya Punkin Mark Turner". For 24 years I have kept paperwork that he completed at the airport when I was flown home. I have the evidence because I was one of 3 sisters that he attacked. It has nothing to do with repressed memories or hypnotic trances from a psychologist. I retained my memories of what happened to me. Now the law says it is too late. The Lubbock DA told me that she did everything she could to toll the SOL but she could not. Whether the evidence is there or not should be left up to district attorneys not a law on the books. Senator Rodney Ellis filed SB 1019 today which is the Senate version of HB838. Look at what other states have in regards to this issue. It takes alot for child victims to come forward. I beg of each of you to go to www.endsol.org and look at the evidence that we have compiled. We have supporters from across the state. By stopping one pedophile, you save literally hundreds of children.

Jim/Matthew, I also have to disagree. What happens to the adults who have proof, who can convict? Is it up to Keel or any other legislator to deny a victim their day in court – their justice? Not only that but is okay for a legislator to allow a pedophile to hunt freely on Texas soil simply because the SOL? What if CPS records, court documents, and family members can corroborate the incidents?

It is easy to understand adult sexual assault but when a child is sexually assaulted, the effects are disastrous. The growing person inside that child is damaged. The child then further damages themselves with self-destructive behavior or becomes overly introverted.

It is not up to me, you, Rhonda, Keel, or any other legislator to deny the right of a victim to convict and remove them from the streets. Leave the decision to a DA, they make these types of decisions on a daily basis. Pedophiles will not stop.

Ms. Freeman, you have convinced me.

We should do the same on shoplifting, jay walking, simple assault, and tearing the tags off mattresses.

No statute of limitations.

Who cares if it's impossible to get good evidence, that recovered memories are unreliable, or to mount an effective defense because things like alibi witnesses.

Ms. Kuykendall, you had until you were 28 to file, and you chose not to.

You knowingly enabled a predator until you had a kid, and "Aw Gee, it might effect her."

Needless to say, I'm remarkably unimpressed with your sense of responsibility towards your fellow man.

it is intersting to note your benevolence towards a child molester does not extend to the victim.

in point of fact most victims may not be psychologically capable of coming forwrd, not because they don't want to, but because the shame and hostility(your post is a case in point),family pressure, fear of ostraczation, requires maturity and distance.

in a trial to be held in FTW (State of Texas v. Wirt Norris) in May there are 20 male victims who could not file criminal complaints because their victimizations occured beyond the SOL and back in a time when these kinds of things were swept under the rug. They did not come forward because they thought no one would believe them or care.
It took them well into fatherhood and their late 30's and 40' before they had the courage and wisdom to come forward as heterosexual males who had been sexually abused by an adult male. Even so their evidence has no legal standing because of the SOL. Never the less they gave testimony in open court to supprot a young victim within the SOL.

think of the treatment the victim of michael jackson is now getting. he is on trial , not jacko.

17 other states and the federal government have removed the SOL.

HB 838 simply lets victims file a criminal complaint for sexual assault(rape really) committed on a child by an adult.

HB 838 is a good bill with bi-partisan support. its what we democrats do, craft legislation that helps people.

folks, austin folks in particular,(Terry Keel is Chair of JP committee where bill is now) need to contact their state rep. to support HB 838 removing the Statute of Limitations on Sex Crimes Committed against Children.

tim kaastad

Matthew, I am sorry you feel the way that you do. What are the implications of say - shoplifting, jay walking, simple assault, and tearing the tags off mattresses compared to a 34-year-old MAN sexually abusing an 11/10/5-year-old? Instead of attacking others, perhaps research why so many childhood victims do not come forward. Could it be that the children were told not to speak - not to tell? As a child, we are taught to trust and obey adults - unfortunately, there are adults who abuse this power. I hope you never have to personally/emotionally understand what I am saying but I do hope you intellectually understand. It takes time to heal, again you do not understand this.

Matthew – do you not think that I and I am sure Rhonda think everyday that if I had spoken up – if I had not listened to this pedophile’s sick threats – then I could have saved hundred’s (yes hundred’s) of other children from going through the same abuse.

Thank you for pointing that out – we are far more familiar with that guilt than you will ever know.

Matthew's post shows the ignorance that many in society have about childhood sexual assault and for good reason. It is a dark issue - one that a person does not willfully choose to enter. I was put into that dark world at the age of 10 and I am fighting to make sure that pedophiles stay in prison where they belong and victims are able to press charges.

Good evidence - Would that be plane tickets and airline paperwork completed by the predator? Would that be an inscription from him to prove I was in his hands? How about the testimony of 3 women now aged 35, 34 and 30?

As I said before, recovered memories are not a part of this story. They are not a part of the majority of childhood sexual assault cases. I never forgot what happened to me. My sisters never forgot what happened to them. None of us sat before a counselor where we spontaneously remembered a "Mark Turner" "Lubbock, Texas". The evidence is there to say it happened.

I did not knowingly enable a predator. I worked my entire life to build what I considered normal. I struggled to keep my head above water. Do you understand what pedophiles do to their victims? I was told "You wanted to be a model. If you tell anyone, they will know it is your fault because you wanted to be a model. Let's take some Goof shots because that is what fasion models do". I was a child. He was a conspiring sadistic adult who took the trust of a small girl and she never trusted again. I believed it was my fault and now you are trying to tell me it is my fault that I was not mentally strong enough to come forward in a certain allotted time ie 28 years old.

I find it extremely odd that you are so ready to protect a pedophile at the expense of a victim. The crasness of your comments in regards to my
"responsibility to my fellow man". My abuse was in 1981. In 1985 I reported it to doctors in Galveston, Texas who then reported it to CPS. We fell through the cracks - nothing happened. Then again in 1987 this allegation of sexual abuse actually shows up in court documents from a custody battle for my younger sister, Traci. CPS and court appointed advocates heard our allegations and did nothing. We WERE CHILDREN - WE TOLD - SOCIETY DID NOTHING - and now they say we are too late.

We are not asking for a carte blanche prison sentence for anyone accused of pedophilia. In alot of cases victims will not have the evidence. When they do, a case should be brought to trial. Each county and district attorney should be able to look at the evidence, memories, alibis and make a decision.

I must ask where is your responsibility for your fellow man where you would choose to protect a suspected pedophile from an allegation over the words of a victim who has EVIDENCE.

Sir, I respectfully say that when Turner gets out of prison 7/3/2006 and recommits (which he will) it will be the philosophy that you espouse that enables him to continue in his sordid sickness without fear of the charges I could file if we had better laws as 17 other states have.

Amen

Apart from the questionable reliability of the state's evidence, which obviously doesn't concern actual victims, another consideration urges that charges should be brought by some definite time. I'm worried here about attrition of exculpatory evidence. Witnesses now dead or unavailable, the lapsed memory of the defendant, the dissipation of papers and other documentary evidence all severely hamper a defendant's ability to recieve a fair trial. And we still believe in a fair trial, right? Even victims believe in the right to a fair trial, right? In fact, it's the fairness of the trial that provides that cathartic feeling to victims after the experience.

If you are a victim, bring charges. If you repressed the memory until after the statute has run, admit to the strangeness of memory and seek some other form of redress, like publishing an account that begs for a libel suit from the abuser. Or get medieval on his ass. If you are that confident in your memory, shoot the SOB. Then have a fair trial, and tell your story.

Lemon, I agree and disagree. It seems that it is being forgotten that this is for childhood sexual assault. You are thinking as an adult who was victimized not an adult who has grown up as a victimized child. Unless citizen educate themselves to the effects of this type of abuse and the reasons why the victim kept quiet children will continue to be victimized by pedophiles who serve short prison terms – not from lack of evidence but due to the SOL or the inability for previous victims to testify.

What are your thoughts on Rhonda’s comments? Hospitals, doctors, CPS, courts, etc. were told but NO ONE did anything. Is it now still the victims fault? As a child everyone was told yet nothing happened – what effect does this have? When I told my mother about Rick Ward, she brushed it off – she made it seem like this is a rite of passage that each little girl has to go through. I was told by my step-mom that he would be arrested if he came back to Texas.

Each case is different and each case has evidence. I never forgot my abuse – I never repressed my abuse – I was essentially told that I did not matter – that my abuse was OK and my abuser now lives in California with a wife and two teenage boys.

I cannot explain the mixed emotions when trying to explain the complex varied effects of this type of abuse. To form an opinion properly, citizens need to become educated but very few people do that.

Shooting has come to mind but then I remember my 13-year-old son and my husband. So instead of murder – I try to make a difference.

Interesting points to make. With all of your concerns in regards to a fair trial, why do 17 other states have no SOL on childhood sexual assault. Why did the federal government in S151, PROTECT law, provide this same exclusion? We are talking about abolishing the SOL on cases of childhood sexual assault, not when you are a victim as an adult. I understand and completely agree with the 10 yr. SOL on sexual assault when the victim is an adult. As an adult you can reason that it was not your fault. When you are a child victim, it takes many years to come to terms with the fact that you were not to blame.

Please note that in most of these other states there is no SOL on childhood sexual assault and murder. Because these crimes are so heinous and because the mental effects on a child are so disastrous, we must allow victims to come forward when they have EVIDENCE.

Remember we are only asking for DAs to be able to review these cases. If 90% of child victims never come forward, what is the uproar on abolishing the SOL? If members of endSOL were able to keep Mark Turner, Kenneth Ward and Wirt Norris in prison where they belong, hundreds and hundreds of children would be saved from this abuse.

Also look at the negative toll on society that would be minimized. Many victims act out destructively after abuse whether it be drugs, sex, prostitution. With less victims we will have less crime. This is a trickle down effect for abolishing the SOL that no one can put their finger on and say here are the statistics.

You mention a libel suit in your response. Only criminal proceedings can protect the public from pedophiles. I just began speaking publicly about my abuse 7 months ago. When I found out about his release, I did go "medieval" for a couple of weeks. Luckily my two small children have kept me sane. They need me more than I need revenge. I am trying to protect other little girls who he will abuse in the future. Does anyone see this is not about revenge? Several friends have asked me why am I doing what I am doing? My response is that if I am ever confronted by his next victim, I want to be able to tell her that I did everything I could to stop him.

I know I am full of emotion but don't disregard my words. Look for yourself what other states have. Look and research why a child victim deserves this change in the law, not for the victim but for the protection of our society as a whole.

I am not disregarding your concerns, but I am advancing some other concerns. Leaving it to the DAs is not an acceptable filter to me. I talk to one or two every day, and I do not trust their judgment in the least. These people are elected in Texas, and elections produce politicians, not officials with good judgment. Politicians exploit victims routinely, and several cases I've been involved in were so shallow in evidence that prosecution was absurd. Because so many ulterior motives exist for bringing these cases, I think there should be a statute of limitations.

I wouldn't mind seeing the civil cause of action go without a SOL. I also believe that public agencies which failed to forward charges from children should be liable, and I see no reason for a SOL there either. I imagine that a calculating private lawyer would be adequate to filter out bad evidence and discard weak cases.

I think one problem is that the fate of the culprit is seen more and more as the victim's interest. But it is a public interest that puts people in prison. And victims' concerns are only a part of the public's interest. Victims have an active and meaningful role in settling criminal matters. Police and prosecutors all have victims' liasons, and victims' input often guides the state's management of a given case. Victims are increasingly the paramount interest for the state. which brings us back to political gains to be had by pandering.

I am sorry that opposing your view means leaving the emotional desires of victims unfulfilled. But I'm afraid providing for emotional needs is not the state's forte. I simply don't trust them to do it well.

Lemon -

Your last sentence in the above statement is completely inaccurate. As a survivor of this crime, I am not looking to have my "emotional desires" fulfilled by keeping him locked up. It is a matter of public safety. The state's forte should be in keeping the public at large safe from known convicted predators who prey on the weakest and most vulnerable in society - children.

If abolishing the SOL is completely against your judgement, what are your thoughts about going with what the state of Ohio has where the SOL is 20 years from the 18th birthday?

Also what mechanism could be put in place where there would be a review of evidence by someone impartial who you could have confidence in that they would not be swayed by public opinion? I do not want to see innocent people suffer on either side i.e. meaning a man who is erroneously charged with pedophilia or a victim who has no rights to confront her/his abuser in
court.

My view is still if I could keep Turner locked up, hundreds of children would be saved. How can we write a law where it protects both sides? I thought leaving it up to a DA would be sufficient. In your opinion, what are the other options? Educate me.

Just a thought, Rhonda

Lemon and Matthew - No one has responded to my last post and I just got back from a meeting with a District Attorney in the Houston area. He has really fueled my fire.

I have read over my posts and neither of ya'll have answered my questions. Traci tried to get you to answer my questions. Please respond to my questions.

This is still America and even if a person is charged with sex crimes against children they are presumed innocent until found guilty. We should do what is best to balance the rights of victims with the rights of defendants. HB838 and SB1019 does just that. If there is no evidence, they will not be convicted.

To my opposition - Reread the entire thread and answer our questions.