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October 05, 2004

Veep Debate Thread

By Byron LaMasters

9:47: Last post here. Liveblogging continues on the post-debate thread.

9:38: Cheney got the best jabs in on foreign policy. Edwards took too long to go on the offensive (Haliburton) and defend Kerry's record that Cheney ripped into. On the domestic front, Edwards dominated. Cheney's hard to listen to. He's dull, boring, uncharismatic. You can tell when he's on an issue that he cares about (Iraq, terrorism), and when he's just going through the motions (domestic issues).

9:29: Did Cheney just mention how the president worked across the aisle in Texas? And how did (Former Texas House Speaker) Pete Laney get treated for working with Bush? Oh, ya know, President Bush sat on the sidelines while Tom DeLay used illegal corporate money to take over the Texas House for Republicans, where Tom Craddick has run the most partisan, autocratic legislature in memory.

Zell Miller? Democrat? The dueler? Huh?

9:25: Bush/Cheney flip-flops: It's about time someone calls them out on it on national television. Thank you, John. (I blogged on this last week).

9:20: "I don't talk about myself very much". That was just soooo self-deprecating Mr. Cheney.

9:16: The experience question. And Edwards... please, say the line that he has the exact same experience in government as George W. Bush did in 2000. It's such an easy and revealing line.

9:13: Cheney wasn't aware of African-American HIV rates? Has he been living in fantasyland? I wonder what Cheney's record on HIV was while he was in Congress in the 1980s? I doubt that he was any more progressive on AIDS than he was on Apartheid.

9:10: Cheney talking about tax loopholes? I think we just entered a parallel universe or something.

9:06: Clintonesque. The swimming pool drain company story. Talking about the poor little girl who was deformed by the evil corporation that was too cheap to fix it with a two cent screw. It's the type of human connection that has failed Dick Cheney tonight. He's hit Kerry hard and effectively tonight, but I don't think he's made any deeper connection.

9:04: Nice, Cheney was speachless. That made me happy. There was nothing further that he could say to bolster the presidents case on the Hate Amendment other than to simply thank John Edwards for his kind words about his family. Cheney's silence demonstrated the complete inability of the Bush administration to defend the Federal Marriage Amendment. His first comments were rather incoherent, but thankfully, Cheney chose loving his daughter over supporting his boss's position in his final remarks.

9:02: Gay marriage... does Dick Cheney hate his daughter? First, he's totally incoherent.

As for Edwards - very nice. Remind all the wingnuts that Cheney has a gay daughter, then talk about Civil Unions and opposition to the Hate Amendment. He's better now, making the case for why gays deserve equal benefits.

[I've moved the first hour of the thread into the extended entry.]

8:56: Cheney talking about jobs again? Rolling back tax cuts for people making $200,000 will hurt small businesses and lose jobs?

Fact check: Clinton raised taxes on the wealthiest Americans in 1994, and 22 million jobs were created. Bush cut taxes for the fourth time this week, and still... net job loss - worst since Herbert Hoover. Who makes up this stuff? It's a bunch of right-wing Kool-Aide.

8:52: Old data? I guess that since it happened in 2002 or 2003, then Bush/Cheney isn't responsible for it? Huh?

8:50: Nice jab by Edwards. How did a jobs/poverty question turn into a talk about education? Because the Bush adminstration has done nothing about jobs, health care or poverty, so they try to change the subject and talk about a subject (education) that they've done little about, but one that they can try to convince enough people that they've tried to do something.

8:47: Another low blow by Cheney. "Senator Gone" (from Edwards "hometown newspaper? Any comment on what Bush's "hometown newspaper" had to say last week)? "The first time I saw you is tonight". He ought to look in the mirror. Where has Dick Cheney been over the past month as the president of the Senate? Has he been presiding over the Senate? Even on Tuesdays? Hell, no. He's on the campaign trail.

Ok, good. To recap: Kerry voted against the same weapons that Cheney opposed. Cheney voted for Apartheid.

8:41: I guess everyone's going to Factcheck.com. I can't open it.

Also liveblogging is Bull by the Horns. Thanks for the trackback.

8:38: Sanctions don't work, but we need stronger ones in Iran? Huh?

8:31: "34 Countries then, 30 today"? You've got to be kidding me. That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. What percentage did our allies pay then and now?

Thanks, John. $5 Billion vs. $200 Billion.

The sacrifice of our Iraqi allies? Wasn't their oil supposed to pay for everything? Oh wait, it went to Dick Cheney and Haliburton instead.

8:27: Yes, Dick, the record does speak for itself. Thanks, John. I would have liked to have seen Haliburton and the remarks about Cheney opposing the same weapons systems as John Kerry 10-15 minutes ago, but I'm glad it made it's way into the debate.

Also liveblogging the debate: Rooftop Report - thanks for the trackback. So is Swanky Conservative.

8:24: Does Dick Cheney have a single positive thing to say about anything? Is he going to start defending his record, or keep attacking. Time to change the topic, John. Talk about that "long resume"...

8:22: Snarky! "You probably weren't there to vote for that"! Damn! I guess he took his anger management from Bush in the first debate. My friends I'm watching this with are mocking him now. He looks evil. And he kept looking at his notes. Look at the camera, Dick!

8:20: This is why Edwards is on the ticket. The "global test" isn't about giving Paris a veto over U.S. security, it's about returning to the type of leadership that the United States has had between World War II and the end of the Clinton administration.

8:18: Well, Edwards responded to the "global test" thing, but not about Kerry's record of opposing weapons systems that Dick Cheney also supported.

8:14: Good retort by Cheney (after a slow start and not answering the first question). He said what President Bush should have said last Thursday night. Attack Kerry's record on defense since the 1970s. I was shocked that Bush didn't mention how Kerry voted against the first Gulf War when Kerry alluded to it during their debate. I was surprised Bush didn't mention Kerry's opposition to weapons systems (that Cheney also opposed... will Edwards remind America of that?). And I was surprised that Bush didn't come up with the "no US force without UN approval line". Cheney did a good job of picking up where Bush screwed up last week.

8:10: No connection between Iraq and Al-Qaeda. Wow, they came out swinging. Cheney looks angry. Did he prep from Bush?

8:03: Ok, as for the real livebloggers: Pandagon and Washington Monthly. On the other side, there's Vodka Pundit and a gooper open thread here.

7:53: I'll start liveblogging the debate in a few minutes.

Posted by Byron LaMasters at October 5, 2004 07:52 PM | TrackBack


Blah blah blah, Dick. Stop with the f-ing talking points. Blah blah. Idiot. She asked a question, she didn't say: lather rinse and repeat your lies.

Posted by: utlaw guy at October 5, 2004 08:06 PM

wonders how live the blogging will be... hehe

Posted by: Karl-T at October 5, 2004 08:08 PM

"You probably weren't there to vote on that." What the fuck is that? Way to be a snarky asshole when the debate was based on policy up to this point.

Posted by: utlaw guy at October 5, 2004 08:21 PM

It is actually factcheck.org - - just another thing wrong by Cheney.

Posted by: Bill K at October 5, 2004 08:44 PM

Cheney your pants are on fire. The CIA "no conclusive evidence...harbored terrorists" quote's up at dailykos.com. Your responses are powerful and spot on Byron. You go.

Posted by: Robert Gordon Durst at October 5, 2004 08:46 PM

Bill K - you can tell who hasn't advanced yet to the information age, ya know? That's hilarious.

Posted by: Byron L at October 5, 2004 08:54 PM

Cheney uses Abu Musab al-Zarqawi as an example of an active al-Qaeda leader in Iraq when Saddam was in power.
What Cheney failed to mention (and what Edwards didn't nail him on) is that al-Zarqawi was affiliated with Ansar al-Islam which was holed up in the Kurdish region, the one part of Iraq not under Saddam's control.

Posted by: Tim Z. at October 5, 2004 08:59 PM

I wholehartedly support the Kenney-Edwards ticket, but I'm sobbing at the the thought of giving this to Dick.

Posted by: Carrie at October 5, 2004 10:00 PM
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